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------- Delphi Mac Digest Thursday, 27 November 1986 Volume 2 : Issue 62 Today's Topics: programming help (3 messages) Not again.... RE: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive? (2 messages RE: MIDI Interfaces Comparisons:PASCAL (6 messages) RE: MPW observations (4 messages) RE: boot problem (4 messages) RE: Re: Mac Engineering San Francisco expo Mac upgrade shaft (12 messages) Discipline (2 messages) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KENWINOGRAD Subject: programming help Date: 24-NOV 18:39 Programming Techniques Hi. I just got a letter from someone who had downloaded my HangMan -application. I found out that when you click HangMan and play it and then quit (everything fine so far) and then double click it again (to play it again) the finder -shows an alert saying "this application is already open or missing" or something -like that. I verified it and indeed that does occur. As I remember that did not occur before I moved up to a macplus and hfs. Has anyone seen anything like this ? Any clues appreciated. Thanks. Ken ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: programming help (Re: Msg 1021) Date: 25-NOV 20:14 Programming Techniques Just a thought ... do you open the application data fork, or anything like that? I don't think this is the problem, but the symptom sure sounds like one of the forks of the file is remaining open after it exits. Aside to anyone ... exactly where/when does the resource fork of a running application get closed? Does the segment loader take care of this somehow? peter ------------------------------ From: KENWINOGRAD Subject: RE: programming help (Re: Msg 1026) Date: 25-NOV 23:25 Programming Techniques Thanks ptr, that sounds like an excellent idea. I most certainly do open up the data fork (tho I'm pretty sure I close right after I get the custom (non mac) font from there). I shall certainly recheck it. I fopen it (as I remeber), get the data, and close it. BVut we'll see. ken ------------------------------ From: MOUSEKETEER Subject: Not again.... Date: 24-NOV 20:29 Mousing Around Spare Announcement... After a long period of reflection and decision making (I flipped a coin) I am semi-pleased to announce a new issue of The Mouseketeer Newsletter is in the works, going out in the next couple of weeks. If you were on the mailing list before, you are still there for this issue (those who want off send cash...). Still, with all the new Delphites and Uselessnet folk around these days, how about the following arrangement? If you aren't on the Mousy mailing list and wish to receive a copy of the next issue, send a SASE to the below address in the next few days, along with a short note including your address for insertion into the regular list at a later date. For those who don't know, TMNL is a serious, scholarly journal devoted to the advancement of culinary arts involving French coldcuts, or "des graisseuses pieces grandes de viande froide". Alfonso T. Qwerty Contributing Editor The Mouseketeer Newsletter P.O. Box 19030, #150 Houston, TX 77224 ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: RE: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive? Date: 24-NOV 22:24 Network Digests To: woo@nyu-acf4.arpa (Alex C. Woo) Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive? Mac hard disk prices are coming down rapidly. A Warp 9 Photon 20 works, quietly for $600. It has a power supply and a case. I don't think the AT drives do. We Mac enthusiasts are no longer far behind the PC folks in the price wars. Ric Ford ------------------------------ From: BRECHER Subject: Re: Re: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive? Date: 25-NOV 04:10 MUGS Online To: <INFOEARN%HLERUL5.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU> (Thomas Fruin) Subject: Re: Why are MAC/SCSI disks so expensive? The Seagate 4026 is a full-height 5.25" drive without controller. The HD20SC uses a Seagate 225N, a half-height 5.25" drive with embedded SCSI controller. ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: RE: MIDI Interfaces Date: 24-NOV 22:30 Network Digests To: Joe Mastroianni <JDM%SMVL%rca.com@RELAY.CS.NET> Subject: MIDI Interfaces There are some solid Mac MIDI products, and I'm not as up to date as some other folks on PAN, Delphi, and writing for the "MacInTouch" newsletter, but Opcode has good hardware and software, including patch librarians and a sequencer; Mark of the Unicorn has pretty amazing software for sequencing and music notation; and Southworth has a potent package combining a -full-blown MIDI hardware interface and an extensive integrated software package. I -guess Passport has a MIDI interface as well, and Digidesign has amazing sampling controller programs for the E-mu and Ensoniq synths. I'd recommend getting on PAN or Delphi for better info. Ric Ford ------------------------------ From: MDELUGG Subject: Comparisons:PASCAL Date: 24-NOV 22:29 Programming Hey all, I'm thinking of buying a PASCAL and would like to hear from anyone with experience. Both TURBO & LIGHTSPEED sound good. I'm a beginner & would like something not too hostile <smile>. Also, any books I should read?? Thanks, Mikey! ------------------------------ From: MOUSEKETEER Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15170) Date: 24-NOV 22:50 Programming A beginner at Pascal or a beginner at programming in general? If you have learned any other language, I would guess you could get up to speed fairly quickly with either. If a beginner at any language, I think the best approach might be finding a good book to learn with, using the appropriate version of Pascal, and deciding later to switch flavors if need be. While I was decent many years ago at some coding, when i recently wanted to learn Pascal, I found Kronick's book "Macintosh Pascal Illustrated, The Fear and Loathing guide" a painless way to learn. If you could pick up a Mac Pascal cheap somewhere now that Lightspeed is out, it might be a very effective introduction. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15170) Date: 25-NOV 03:26 Programming Turbo Pascal has been delayed until 1 Dec, according to InfoWorld. I'd stay away from Borland based on their history of incompatible products (is Turbo Pascal on the IBM really Pascal? Turbo Prolog isn't true Prolog, I hear) and some of their attitudes. ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15170) Date: 25-NOV 20:33 Programming Get Lightspeed Pascal. It is great for debugging, the principal activity involved in creating a program, and it produces decently efficient runnable applications too. peter ------------------------------ From: MOUSEKETEER Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15210) Date: 25-NOV 20:49 Programming Just after my previous note regarding using Scott Kronick's nice book for learning Pascal, and perhaps finding a cheap copy of Mac Pascal, I read in MacTutor that "Lightspeed IS Macintosh Pascal, vastly upgraded to a highly perfected programming environment." So, make it LS Pascal, and Kronick's book....grin. Alf ------------------------------ From: HSTARR Subject: RE: Comparisons:PASCAL (Re: Msg 15210) Date: 26-NOV 00:24 Programming But watch out for 68020's -- Lightspeed Pascal is a definite no-no on this -for now. However, all's hoping Think will do something about it, SOON. ------------------------------ From: DWB Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1020) Date: 24-NOV 21:48 Programming Techniques I've been keeping a list of complaints and greivances about MPW and dropping -it in the appropriate folkslaps. The only real major compliants I have are the automatic string conversion and compile times. Being an old time unix hacker, I like the user interface. It shows what can be done in an integrated environment. Some things are much better done with a command line interface, some are much better done with a mouse. I think they've done an outstanding job of combining the two. I'm not especially found of the wildcard characters they've chosen, but I understand why the chose them. UNIX tends to use characters which are much more normal (*.?[]()) and therefore much more likely to be used in normal circumstances. Thus you have to quote them frequently. MPW chose obscure characters, thus ensuring that you will rarely have to quote them. I mean, when was the last time you had an equivalence sign (the double squiggly) in a program? As far as showing people things on delphi is concerned one possibility might be to write a filter to turn the MPW characters into their UNIX equivalents (or some other set which is standard ascii) and a corresponding filter to unconvert them on the mac. Keep working at it. Once you get used to the quirks of the system you will probably find that the power and versatility you gain will be well worth a little added effort. David ------------------------------ From: LOGICHACK Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1018) Date: 25-NOV 17:52 Programming Techniques Joe: I think Apple is targetting MPW for their own internal use as well as being a standard in Macintosh software development. Since these are the tools that Apple will be using to develop their own software, it must have the power to build large systems like the 128K ROMs, MPW itself (I'm guessing), and other Apple system tools and applications. (Don't I sound like I work there??) It might be too complex for the average Joe (pun intended) but it is probably aimed at doing everything that has to be done on the Mac.. Just my 2 cents worth... Paul :) PS: I like it. ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1020) Date: 25-NOV 20:11 Programming Techniques Actually I don't mind having a powerful tool, and judging from the editor primitives, it is possible to do some very nifty things with it. However, I think there could also be some better online support, even if only in the form of a help menu. (Of course this would be very awkward for folks who are trying to use MPW on a dual 800K floppy system.) One of the things I really appreciate about the Mac is not having to remember commands. All the other machines I use make me remember commands, and my brain gets fried. peter ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: MPW observations (Re: Msg 1024) Date: 25-NOV 20:17 Programming Techniques I *do* especially like the way Rez works. It allows you to use a single -source file for your C code (Pascal? what is that? :-) ) to hold both the program -and its resources! This solves a problem I have with defining strings in one -place and referencing them in another. I am thinking that the right thing to do is use LightspeedC to compile the source code and use MPW running a Rez script -to compile all the resources. peter ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15181) Date: 25-NOV 10:26 Bugs & Features I didn't want to bring this up, because it's an unlikely, nasty problem, but I'm wondering if there's some kind of timing problem. I guess, for laughs, I'd try defragmenting your startup disks and rewriting the boot blocks. (Defragmenting can be done by selecting all files and dragging to a newly initialized disk). winging it, Ric ------------------------------ From: SYNTHONY Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15194) Date: 25-NOV 23:49 Bugs & Features Well, I have tried copying parts or all of the non booting 'startup' disks to a new disk, but then it also does not boot. Though other disks don't boot, several of the disks I use most often have Multiplan on them, and NONE of the copies I had made earlier of MP will now boot. I had used Copy II to make master disks (I hate key disks). I put the applicatio{ on severial disks for use with other applications, now no go. I wonder if that could have anything to do with it (Multiplan I mean, other copied software seems to be fine)? Bill ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15226) Date: 26-NOV 09:50 Bugs & Features This sounds more like a disk drive alignment problem to me. Any chance of -that being the case? Ric ------------------------------ From: SYNTHONY Subject: RE: boot problem (Re: Msg 15239) Date: 26-NOV 22:17 Bugs & Features UNfortunately, the disks act the same on BOTH macs upgraded to 1 meg... this -is really bizarre! BTW, my copied MacDraw (and original) also do not boot, but will run if soft booted with ctrl, option, double-click on the disks finder. Bill ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: RE: Re: Mac Engineering Date: 25-NOV 10:24 Network Digests To: <INFOEARN%HLERUL5.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU> (Thomas Fruin) Subject: Re: Mac Engineering I recently heard something from a reliable source that would add credence to your rumor that DEC may OEM the Mac. I didn't know whether it was DEC or another company in the area, but DEC seems like the best bet. Ric Ford "MacInTouch" ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: San Francisco expo Date: 25-NOV 16:43 Business Mac Hadn't seen the San Francisco MacWorld expo dates posted on the nets, so I just checked on them. The show is to be at the Moscone Center on Jan 8, 9, and 10. (Thur., Fri, Sat.) Mitch Hall, the show organizer is at 617-329-7466. Ric ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: Mac upgrade shaft Date: 25-NOV 23:10 Business Mac I just talked to another Mac owner tonight who got the well-known "upgrade shaft." Like a number of other people I've talked to, he got his Mac 512 upgraded to a 512E, and 2 weeks later the Mac literally went up in smoke. His dealer insisted that it was just "one of those things, nothing to do with the upgrade." Yeah, right. Any of the technicians I've talked to don't bother to check the voltage levels, ever (as they're supposed to do). What's this guy's recourse? To grin and bear it? *** flame on *** I think it stinks that Apple isn't standing behind poorly designed -components that fail leaving customers with smoke and a potential fire, hundreds of dollars of repairs, and a worthless computer. *** flame off *** Ric Ford "MacInTouch" ------------------------------ From: FRIED Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15218) Date: 26-NOV 05:03 Business Mac Apple DOES stand behind those smoking Macs. They stood behind mine when the power supply fried a few weeks after upgrading to 512E. Indeed they did! Unfortunately, they stood with their back to the problem. I called and was told that they hadn't heard anything about a widespread problem. Needless to say, I was a little disappointed in the company. It's almost as if they're trying to emulate the bad parts of Big Blue in the hope that the bottom line would begin to look Bluish. Well, that's not the way to do it. I know Apple reads this Forum, and I know they read about how widespread this problem is on several other systems and in user group newsletters. What hurts most is the knowledge that their denial of the problem is clearly dishonesty --- not ignorance. Come to think of it, there's something even worse than that. Apple KNOWS that WE know they're handling this problem unethically, and they apparently don't care a lot that we do. Are they doing the right thing from a business perspective? Yes, they -probably are, at least in the short term, because I will continue to upgrade my Mac -and buy new ones as long as it's the best machine on the market, not only in features, but also in quality. I let my Applecare lapse after the first -year, and I am not sorry; I've spent a lot less in repairs, even with the demise -of the inadequate power supply, than I would have on Applecare. BUT, wait until there's a system that competes well with the Mac, one that provides some migration path to make it relatively easy for me to recover -some of my software investment. I will hesitate to abandon Apple just about as -long as they hesitated to drop me and the other customers who were burned by the company's failure to right some wrongs. Bob ------------------------------ From: NANOCHIP Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15240) Date: 26-NOV 19:28 Business Mac Ric> Remember the gentleman at the Boston MacExpo who wore the PowerSupply around his neck, complete with lemon attached, as if it were some mythical -Albatros?! It's pretty obvious that Apple is burying its corporate head in the sand regarding the PITYFUL survival rate of the Mac's Power Supply boards. They can't evn be EMBARRASSED into admitting the problem! I had one go on a virgin 512K Mac at the ripe old age of 11 months. The screen blacked out except tor a thin vertical line. Checked all the solder connections, as per Forum msgs, but ended up replacing the board. I was told by the tech guy at my Apple dealer that even if I knew which compoment was bad (he suspected the flyback transformer), I couldn't get it from Apple because they would not provide dealers with individual board-level -components, or their sources. Grrrrr. How about MacInTouch doing a Mac Hardware T.L.C. article (Series?)? You could point out problem areas of the Mac's hardware and the fixes...or even better, proper preventive maintenance (!) to keep your Mac running. I'd love to see a how-to article on the proper way to adjust the Mac's PowerSupply to +5v at the memory. <Chip ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15245) Date: 26-NOV 19:58 Business Mac Chip, old man, I'm waiting on a 2 or 4 MB upgrade from Dove, then I'm going to call up my EE guru and borrow his digital VOM and we's gonna start measuring. I want some RAM! In the meantime, I'm running a Kensington Super Saver Mac fan, and I highly recommend it. I don't know how much of the problem is heat and how much is power drain, but I'm betting my $65 that the fan'll do something worthwhile. Ric ------------------------------ From: MOUSE1 Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15246) Date: 26-NOV 20:27 Business Mac Here is the excerpt from Dec. MacWorld I mentioned in my Delphi note to you: "Reports from readersa about short-lived Macintosh power-supply boards led us to contact dealers around the country to learn how wide spread the problem was. Service mgrs.& technicians were nearly unanimous in calling the power supply burnout rate very hight....most (service technicians() sssssssssssaid to consider yourself luckky if your power supply lasts a year. Apple spokeswoman Lisa Van Horn said upgrades cause the problem; the logic boards swapped into the Macs for an upgrade pull a different load from the power supply but technicians in the stores weren't alerted to make any changes so the power supply could accomodate the new logic boards. At press time, Apple planned to inform dealers by Nov. 1 how to perform tests & make the proper adjustments to see that the power supply can support the upgrade before the Mac is returned to its owner." Does anyone here b elieve that. ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15236) Date: 26-NOV 20:56 Business Mac I inquired about LaserWriter Plus upgrade problems last summer and was told that there were no problems with the upgrades. Now this may have been after the problems were fixed, or it may not have been; it's a bit hard to tell since Apple never made any announcement publicly. peter ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15247) Date: 26-NOV 21:35 Business Mac I believe it. However, just because Apple distributes information about how -to do it doesn't mean that it will get done. I would like to believe that the majority of approved Apple dealers would have their service act together ... peter ------------------------------ From: MACINTOUCH Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15250) Date: 26-NOV 22:14 Business Mac Ha ha hee hee hoo ho haa hee hoo ha !!! Peter, have you ever gone into a service shop and talked to the stoned youngsters who comprise the official Apple technician core? When you get an IBM tech and not an Apple tech, because the Apple tech is doing something -else or is out on lunch break ?? R ------------------------------ From: SYNTHONY Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15249) Date: 26-NOV 22:27 Business Mac Hi Peter, long time no talk to! I bought a LW and immediately had it upgraded to a plus. The upgrade was done in October and works fine, no problems. I had heard of the rom rumors, and waited until October when my friend at the computer store said they were getting them in and they seemed to be okay. Bill ------------------------------ From: JIMH Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15247) Date: 26-NOV 23:33 Business Mac Ric, apple announced to dealers, national accounts some time ago on apple -link to check voltages. if the stores arent doing it i think i would concentrate -my iire on the store techs, not apple. pin the store manager down, show him the note from apple (i will try to remember to get it from apple link next time -and post it to you). see why they didnt do it. jim ------------------------------ From: MOUSEKETEER Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15263) Date: 27-NOV 02:07 Business Mac Having remembered the mention Judy quoted from Macworld, it does seem rather stupid of Apple to not take some responsibility for what is going on. I suppose they realize we dear users, or most of us, (the rest of us..grin) will put up with it to use the Mac, so our financial leverage is pretty low....unless..... As individual users, or even in a smallish quantity, we wouldn't pull much weight with Apple on the issue. And despite my rad chic nature, I don't think a "boycott" would work...we'd all do withdrawals after two days. One area we might be able to get Apple's attention on the upgrade/flame problem is to start gathering information on how many folks we know have had the problem, in effect documenting where Apple is not doing a good job with quality upgrades via their Authorized Dealers. Ya see, 47th Street Photo, Executive Camera, and a bunch of other big time discounters would love to be able to sell Apple gear, and would take a lot less profit than the local dealer. Apple has prevented that happening so far by showing that they need to control dealership sales to assure quality service and support. If we suggested that the data collected on this problem might be given to 47th Street Photo and crew to use in a court case showing that Apple, while controlling sales and service through it authorized dealers, was falling down on the job...well, a threat to the authorized dealer network would likely get attention from Cupertino much more readily than a single guy with a smoking Mac. Agreed, it's a sneaky idea, but... Alf ------------------------------ From: DWB Subject: RE: Mac upgrade shaft (Re: Msg 15245) Date: 27-NOV 03:46 Business Mac The next BMUG newsletter should have an article on how to adjust the power supply and video circuitry. I wrote one and sent it to them and last I heard they were going to put it in. If they don't (or tell me they aren't and/or -that it's OK anyway) I'll upload it here. David ------------------------------ From: CSTERRITT Subject: Discipline Date: 25-NOV 20:23 Tools for Developers Hello, I'm looking for the program "Discipline" that Scott Knaster mentions in his marvelous book, that checks the args to rom calls. If anyone knows where it can be had (I'll pay if it isn't PD), I'd appreciate a LETTER VIA EMAIL (I don't get on often enough here to get a reply in time!) Thanks a lot, Chris Sterritt CSterritt here, C.Sterritt on GEnie ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: RE: Discipline (Re: Msg 1028) Date: 26-NOV 04:47 Tools for Developers I use the Discipline feature in the latest TMON user area. Email isn't any faster than forum messages; there is no message scroll on Delphi. ------------------------------ End of Delphi Mac Digest ************************